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Lizzie Henry, Choctaw
Lizzie Henry, Choctaw
Record
August 1899. Applied at Durant. Ind. T.,
before Commissioner McKennon, and there
stated that she was one-half Choctaw, born
in the nation, and had resided there all her
life; that her father was Tom Holden, a full
blood; that she knew nothing about getting
enrolled; that her father died when she was
10 years old, and her mother when she was 12
years old. Above facts uncontradicted in
record.
Commissioner McKennon stated:
This case of yours seems to be all right.
You seem to be born a citizen, and by
misfortune left off. The commission will
call the special attention of the Secretary
of the Interior to your case.
Under above application claimants entitled
to enrollment under decision in Long case.
October 9, 1901. No decision having been
rendered by commission on pending
application, claimant applied for enrollment
as fourteenth article, Mississippi Choctaw.
June 25, 1902, and June 28. 1902. Hearings
had at which it was shown that father of
principal applicant was a full-blood
Choctaw, that he had a brother. Jack Holden,
and that applicant's grandparents lived in
the Choctaw Nation. Mississippi.
October 15, 1902. Decision of commission
denying applicants' enrollment as
Mississippi Choctaws, and further holding
that they had not been enrolled or
recognized by the tribal authorities, as
required of all applicants applying after
act of May 31, 1900.
October 31. 1902. Decision of commission
denying claimants enrollment as Mississippi
Choctaws, approved by department.
John Holden, brother of Lizzie Henry, was
enrolled by the commission, and his name
appears on the final Chickasaw blood roll
opposite No. 3932, as a Chickasaw, 68 years
of age.
No decision by commission or department on
application of August 1899, nor any record
of any report of said case to Secretary, as
stated would be done by Commissioner
McKennon at the examination of claimant, is
of record. Claimants were clearly entitled
to enrollment under act of June 28, 1898.
The following persons, for whose enrollment
application was duly made, counsel for
claimants submit are clearly entitled to
enrollment: Lizzie Henry, Mary Henry
(daughter of Lizzie Henry), Myrtle E. Epps
(child of Mary Henry by first husband), Emma
E. Epps (child of Mary Henry by first
husband), and Tommey F. Henry (son of Mary
Henry by present husband).
Additional testimony taken by Judge Pollock
for the department December 6, 1910, copy of
which is attached.
Respectfully submitted.
Ballinger & Lee, Attorneys for Claimants.
Department Of The Interior
Muskogee, Okla., December 6, 1910.
In the matter of the application for the
enrollment of Lizzie Henry as a citizen by
blood of the Choctaw Nation.
Proceedings had at Ardmore, Okla., November
12, 1910, before W. C. Pollock, assistant
attorney, Interior Department.
Appearances: Albert J. Lee for Ballinger &
Lee, attorneys for claimant; A. W. Clapp for
Rodgers & Clapp, attorneys for the Chickasaw
Nation.
Elizabeth Jane Henry, being duly sworn and
examined as a witness, testified as follows:
By Mr. Lee:
Q. State your name.-
A. Elizabeth Jane Henry.
Q. How old are you?-
A. I am going on 51. I was 50 the 22d day of
this gone October.
Q. Where do you live?-
A. Near Brock: little northwest of Brock.
Q. Oklahoma V-
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Were you ever before the Commission to
the Five Civilized Tribes or any of its
officers?-
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Do you remember the first time you were
before them?-
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Do you remember about what year that
was?-
A. I don't know, sir; I don't believe I
remember the year. I have been sick so much
I can't remember dates, and I have no
education either.
Q. Do you remember where it was the first
time you appeared before them7-
A. I believe it was here at Ardmore, in a
park.
Q. Do you remember the name of the
commissioner you appeared before?- A. I can
think of his name sometimes and other times
I can't. My granddaughter there will tell
you that.
Q. Do you know whether it was Commissioner
Bixby or whether it was McKenuon or any of
the other commissioners? Could you tell
their names if I called it, which one it
was?-
A. Let me see-I might if you would call it:
I can't place the names, it's been so long
ago.
Q. Can you remember anything about what was
told you at the time by the commissioner?-
A. Yes, sir; I think I can.
Mr. Clapp. Doesn't the records show this?
Mr. Lee. I just asked that as a means of
Identification.
A. There was one told me that I was Indian
all right, and that I ought to have been put
on the roll long ago, and that he would
refer my case to the Secretary or something
similar to that.
Q. Have you any relatives that are now on
the rolls?-
A. Yes, sir.
Q. State their names, please.-
A. James Underwood is one: he's dead; and
then
Q. What relation was he to you?-
A. My father's nephew; he's my cousin.
Q. And who else?-
A. His son, Wilson Underwood, and then
Alemon Holden, another nephew. all blood
Choctaws; and then there's Arums Holden.
Q. What relation is he?-
A. Cousin.
Q. Is he a full-blood, too?-
A. All my folks full-blood, too. My father
and mother died and I was just kicked about,
and when first one and another talked to me
they said get a lawyer, and I tried to get a
lawyer, and one would do a while one way and
some another, and I went to Atoka, and
Muskogee twice, and here to the park; to
Durant once, and just everywhere, and I
can't remember all they told me.
Q. Have you any other relation on the
rolls?-
A. Yes; he has two half brothers.
Q. What are their names?-
A. I disremember; I believe their names are
Joe and Dave; but, anyhow it's Flincher.
Q. Joe and Dave Flincher?-
A. Yes, sir; I think that's their given
names; It's Flincher, anyhow.
Q. Are there any other relatives that you
remember now that are on the roll?-
A. These are old ones I am giving; there's
lots of them, 25 or 40, from 20 years old
down, that's on.
Q. Do you remember your father and mother?-
A. Yes sir; I remember them.
Q. Where did your father live?-
A. Up on Blue, toward these mountains.
Q. Kiamichi Mountains?-
A. Yes sir; when I was about 4 years old,
and then he moved down on the river
somewhere not very far from where Cousin
John and Jack Holden lived.
Q. Are they on the rolls?-
A. Yes, sir; John's dead, but I think Jack
is living; he's up In the Choctaw Nation.
Q. They are cousins of yours?-
A. Yes, sir; father's nephews.
Q. Any others that are on the rolls?-
A. Not of the old ones, but there is 40
younger heads.
By Mr. Clapp:
Q. Can you give us your father's name?-
A. Thomas Holden, and his Indian name was
Iyaketubby; the best I remember that's what
it is.
Q. Now, what was your mother's name?-
A. Angeline Cornogg; she was a German woman.
.
Q Did you know the name of your father's
father?-
A. No, sir; not for certain; I believe it
was Jim; I wouldn't be positive that Jim was
his name, but I believe it was.
Q. Do you remember your grandfather?-
A. No, sir; I don't remember my grandfather.
I remember my grandmother-pappy's mother-but
I just remember as a dream. I could describe
her. She was tolerably tall, with high cheek
bones and long hair down her back, and
looked like these Mississippi Choctaws.
Q. Do you remember what her name was?-
A. I believe it was Sallie; I might be
mistaken; 1 wouldn't be positive. I remember
sitting on her lap and her combing my head.
Q. Were you born in Mississippi?-
A. I was born here.
Q. Did your grandfather and grandmother move
out here?-
A. Yes, sir; when the Indians was drove out
here.
Q. Your father was born here?-
A. I don't know whether he was or not, but I
know his folks came here when they was
brought to this wild country there.
Q. You stated they were Choctaw and
Chickasaw?-
A. Choctaw and Chickasaw both, but they
claimed the Chickasaw side.
Q. How old were you when your father died?-
A. I was somewhere about 10 years old.
Q. And how old were you when your mother
died?-
A. She died the 15th of March, and I would
be 13 in the following October.
Q. That was about 38 years ago?-
A. I don't know, sir.
Q. Who did you live with after they died?-
A. Jim Rutledge an old negro overseer, but I
don't know where he Is from Adam's house
cat; I guess he's dead.
Q. Where did he live then?-
A. On the Red River below Lebanon, and I
have been right around the Chickasaw part
ever since.
Q. How long did you live with him?-
A. I guess I was about 17 when I married.
Q. Did you live with him until you were
married?-
A. Yes, sir.
Q. What is your husband's name?-
A. Moore.
Q. Moore Henry?-
A. John Moore, my daughter's father, and
these are her children, but I have married
again, you know, since that; my name is
Henry now.
Q. Was Moore a white man?-
A. Yes, sir.
Q. And Henry Is a white man?-
A. Yes. sir.
Q. Now, can you remember the year In which
you were first married?-
A. No, sir: I can't.
Q. You think you were 17 years old?-
A. Yes, sir: about 17.
Q. So that your name-how long did Moore
live?-
A. Six years.
Q. And you lived with him all that time?-
A. Yes sir.
Q. Do you remember a payment being made In
1878, about 32 years ago, to the Indians?-
A. Thirty-two years ago? Let me see. No; I
don't remember it.
Q. Did you ever draw any payment?-
A. No, sir: the first payment that ever I
remember anything about it-that I got
enlightened into anything of that kind-was
the time they drew the $130 when the Dawes
Commission went through Thackerville
Q. About 17 years ago?-
A. Yes. sir: I think so.
Q. Well, did you try to get a part of that
payment?-
A. No. sir; I didn't go and try to get part
of the payment, but I met the Dawes
Commission at Thackerville.
Q. Well, do you remember a payment made In
1893?-
A. I remember several payments that have
been paid--
Q. Paid to the Indians?-
A. Through the Government?
Q. Yes: since that $130.-
A. I remember several being paid since, $40
to the head of late.
Q. Can you tell us where you have lived
since you were first married and since you
first left Jim Rutledge?-
A. Yes sir; I have been all over the
Chickasaw part of the Territory and right
smart time around Roff and when he died I
was at Tyler, Tex.; my first man he went out
there and got a job there and died there.
Q. How long did you live in Texas?-
A. Maybe about three or four months.
Q. Then you came back here?-
A. Yes sir; he got hurt: he went there to
get a job, and he got hurt and died, and as
soon as he was put away I came back.
Q. Is that the only time you have lived
outside of the Chickasaw Nation?- A. Except
going to Gainesville and back on trips.
Q. You never did live in Texas?-
A. No, sir; and it is all the State outside
of the Territory I was ever in.
Q. You have lived around among the Chickasaw
Indians, have you not?- A. Yes, sir; all the
time in the Chickasaw part, except a year I
lived close to Roff.
Q. Have you ever been well acquainted with
any prominent men In the Chickasaw Nation?-
A. No, sir; only just meeting these people
and going back home.
Q. Did you ever talk with any of the Indians
around where you lived about your Indian
blood?-
A. Yes, sir; I asked them about the Indian
affairs what I would know to ask them, and
then I would get a lawyer to see if he could
do anything.
Q. Did you ever get a lawyer before you
appeared before the Dawes Commission?-
A. No, sir.
Q. You never made any attempt to get before
the Council of the Chickasaw Nation?-
A. I went before the commission.
Q. But you never went before the tribal
authorities of the Chickasaw Nation?-
A. No, sir; I reckon not; I don't know. I
have met them around and around and had I
don't know how many lawyers. I had one at
Muskogee and one at Atoka and two or three
here and at Tishomingo.
Q. I am asking you about things before
that.-
A. I tried them to get me a right, but I
couldn't do it.
Q. Now what relation was Jack Holden to your
father?-
A. He was a brother; and John, Alemon, and
Armus, these others, are all his nephews.
Q. Jack was a brother?-
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Was he a full brother or half brother?-
A. Full brother, and these other two they
are half brothers-these Flinchers was half
brothers.
Q. Jack Holden, your father's brother, is he
on the roll?-
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Is he living now?-
A. I don't know: he moved away up in the
Choctaw Nation, and I had his address to
write and see if he was still living, but I
lost it.
Q. Which roll is he on?-
A. Chickasaw, I think.
Q. You said that your parents or
grandparents, your father or your
grandparents, claimed to be either Choctaw
or Chickasaw blood, that they had both
blood?-
A. They have both blood; they claim the
Chickasaw side. I know the majority part of
them was filed at Tishomingo at the land
office there.
Q. Can you remember your parents or
grandparents drawing money?-
A. No, sir; I don't recollect nothing about
them drawing money.
Q. Did you ever see very much of these
relatives of yours?-
A. Yes, sir; I go amongst them every once In
a while.
Q. Say 20 years ago, did you use to see
them?-
A. Yes. sir; I was with them about that
time.
Q. Well, they were always recognized
members?-
A. Yes, sir, always recognized.
Q. Why didn't it occur to you to try to be
recognized yourself?-
A. Well, I thought I was recognized the same
as they was, Indian and full-bloods, and
whenever they held offices and run around
and get money and do this and that, and I
didn't have sense enough to get any.
Q. Did you talk to them about getting
money?-
A. Well, they said you better get a lawyer
and have him to see what's the reason you
can't get this. I went and held one of
pupa's nieces' baby on the steps of the
building at Tishomingo while she went up and
drawed her money.
Q. Within the last 50 years?-
A. Yes sir; about 10 years ago.
Q. That was townsite money?-
A. I don't know; I didn't get it; I have
always been Indian.
Q. These relatives know about your
parentage?-
A. Yes, sir. I got n letter here some time
ago from an old gentleman-an Indian named
Kemp; lives southeast of Tishomingo-telling
me they wore working at Muskogee, and I had
better go up there and see something about
my affair, or the first thing I wouldn't
have anything: and I taken the letter and
sent it to Mr. Lee.
Witness excused.
Albert G. McMillan, being first duly sworn,
states that he reported the proceedings had
in the above-entitled cause, and that 'the
foregoing is a true and correct transcript
of his stenographic notes.
Albert G. McMillan.
Subscribed and sworn to before me this 12th
day of December 1910.
[seal.] Harry Montague.
Notary Public.
Notes About the Book:
Source: Five Civilized Tribes In Oklahoma, Reports of the Department of the
Interior and Evidentiary Papers in support of S. 7625, a Bill for the Relief of
Certain Members of the Five Civilized Tribes in Oklahoma, Sixty-second Congress,
Third Session, Published 1913, by the Department of the Interior, United States.
Online Publication: The manuscript was scanned and then ocr'd. Minimal editing
has been done, and readers can and should expect some errors in the textual
output.
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